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Joined: 8/30/2001
Posts: 284
Posted on Monday, October 1, 2001 12:25:00 PM
 
Russian martial arts topic kinda brought this question up :)
Joined: 8/14/2001
Posts: 911
Posted on Monday, October 1, 2001 12:28:00 PM
 
proletarskoe oruzhie - eto slovo i kamen'!!!
a pushkoy ih ne zapugaesh'...
Joined: 8/2/2001
Posts: 3146
Posted on Monday, October 1, 2001 12:32:00 PM
 
Definitely not, I don't like guns.
Besides..sadly, it is still too easy to buy one, even in Canada.
Joined: 8/14/2001
Posts: 911
Posted on Monday, October 1, 2001 12:34:00 PM
 
a esli ser'ezno - to naher ono nado?

menya v rossii bratva priuchila k tomu, chto, esli nosish' s soboy nozh - eto tvoe lichnoe delo, no esli ti ego dostanesh' na razborke - bud' gotov za lezvie otvetit'.

kak v tom anekdote pro kovdoya, kotoromu posovetovali spilit' mushku s dula pistoleta...

esli nado v lob dat' - to luche v lob dat', a vertet' valinu v rukah - eto pont dlya slabih..
Joined: 8/30/2001
Posts: 284
Posted on Monday, October 1, 2001 12:36:00 PM
 
You mean illegally on streets?
Joined: 8/14/2001
Posts: 911
Posted on Monday, October 1, 2001 12:36:00 PM
 
tfuuu, kak-to v stile Zlogo Shaitana poluchilos'...
Joined: 7/1/2001
Posts: 304
Posted on Monday, October 1, 2001 12:39:00 PM
 
v sovke ya bi ne otkazalsa imet' pushku.. no ne dumayu chto ya bi kupil stvol jivya zdes'.. net nadobnosti.. tol'ko karman ottyagivat' budet.. i pojaluy ya protiv svobodnoy prodaji nareznih stvolov v kanade..
Joined: 8/2/2001
Posts: 3146
Posted on Monday, October 1, 2001 12:41:00 PM
 
Yes, it's scary..but you could buy just about anything on the streets of Toronto..Brrrr
Joined: 8/14/2001
Posts: 911
Posted on Monday, October 1, 2001 12:44:00 PM
 
Irishka, v High Parke tozhe ne sovsem spokoyno. Ya po vecheram begayu po parku, uzhe v temnote. Tak tam tozhe hvataet obkurennih poluaziatov. tozhe strashnovato
Joined: 8/2/2001
Posts: 3146
Posted on Monday, October 1, 2001 12:51:00 PM
 
Shurix, ya tozhe begayu vecherom, no nikogda ne zabegayu v High Park kogda temno.
V High Park rayone est' mnogo shkol gde est' footbol'naya ploshadka, tam ya i begayu...ili vokrug Bloor West Village.
Joined: 9/12/2001
Posts: 1178
Posted on Monday, October 1, 2001 12:54:00 PM
 
For each gun there is a bigger one. Getting a gun is asking for a problem. I do not see any need in it. Ever killed anyone? I did not think so. Well, person who will point gun at you probably did he will have easier time pressing that trigger. By the time you will break your morals about not killing people, (most of the normal people have those) you will be dead. What is the point?
Joined: 8/2/2001
Posts: 3146
Posted on Monday, October 1, 2001 1:00:00 PM
 
Maxim :~) Pravil'no
Joined: 8/14/2001
Posts: 911
Posted on Monday, October 1, 2001 1:02:00 PM
 
Max, bravo!!

thread is logically ended by this
Joined: 7/1/2001
Posts: 304
Posted on Monday, October 1, 2001 1:12:00 PM
 
Max, ne dumayu chto u menya bi voznikli kakie to kolebaniya esli bi na menya napravili stvol.. pojaluy ya bi snachala strelyal, a potom razmishlyal nad moral'nost'yu moego postupka..
Joined: 9/12/2001
Posts: 1178
Posted on Monday, October 1, 2001 1:39:00 PM
 
Obsession, I lived in Israel and had my share of adventures of this kind. It never got to guns, but knives and other cold weapons were used against me. I never picked one up because even though there were times when I though I am going to die and what is the difference, there were a mental block that made me think twice in doing something more then blocking a hit with that baseball stick. Instincts are of cause there, but can you realy be sure that when moment comes you can pull it off or you will just frize in place. I have seen people do that (freeze) but the fact alone that they had a weapon in hand made matter worse. if you want to be able physicly protect yourself, look into Aiki-Do. Probably the best self deffence technique out there that can be very effective in closed area against multiple enemies. Othervise, learn to deal with problems in an inteligent way (with your head). :) I chose that way and it worked past 10 years fairly well.
Joined: 9/21/2001
Posts: 2605
Posted on Monday, October 1, 2001 2:46:00 PM
 
А у меня в Руше вся семья почему то любила оружие и при возможности обновлять арсенал мы всегда обновляли а теперь я жалею что с собой орудие никакое не привез . тут есть столько мушконосителей что пропади оно всё пропадом .
Joined: 9/15/2001
Posts: 9681
Posted on Monday, October 1, 2001 2:58:00 PM
 
Зделать выстрел из пистолета гораздо труднее чем зарезать кого то ножом. Вмежду прочим для прикола : в суде если ты убил кого-то огнестрельным оружием тебе дедут минимум 8 лет, если ты зарезал кого-то тебе максимум дадут 5 лет и всё. Одно и тоже убисство, просто разным оружием и какая разница в суде.

Я бы сам не купил огнестралу не когда. Зачем она мне? А вот с другими видами оружия я уже успел наигратся и мне хватит.

У меня другое предложение. Давайте вооружим наших полицейских. Ведь они во время офф не имеют табельного оружия. Только на работе. А бадж имеют всегда. С моей точки зрения, полицейский, это работа 24-ёх часовая. Ты на ней всегда, даже когда ты офф и видиш что то происходит, твоя обязанность влезть и помочь.
Joined: 8/30/2001
Posts: 284
Posted on Monday, October 1, 2001 3:10:00 PM
 
Odna iz zabot politseiskogo na sluzhbe eto
ne "poteriat'" tabel'noe oruzhie. Nu tak
zachem cheloveka napriagat' kogda on ne na rabote?
Joined: 8/30/2001
Posts: 284
Posted on Monday, October 1, 2001 3:11:00 PM
 
za predumishlennoe ubiistvo vsego 5-8 let?!
Joined: 9/17/2001
Posts: 17
Posted on Monday, October 1, 2001 4:39:00 PM
 
Я думаю вопрос "Купили бы вы оружие?" надо дополнить "С какой целью?". Мне например нравится оружие, огнестрельное в частности. И я бы купил оружие(легально) если бы мог(наличие денег и приличных условий хранения).
Как известно убить можно и топором, так что более интересен вопрос, для чего оружие приобретается..:)
Joined: 9/17/2001
Posts: 17
Posted on Monday, October 1, 2001 4:39:00 PM
 
Я думаю вопрос "Купили бы вы оружие?" надо дополнить "С какой целью?". Мне например нравится оружие, огнестрельное в частности. И я бы купил оружие(легально) если бы мог(наличие денег и приличных условий хранения).
Как известно убить можно и топором, так что более интересен вопрос, для чего оружие приобретается..:)
Joined: 10/1/2001
Posts: 3
Posted on Monday, October 1, 2001 7:42:00 PM
 
I'd buy myself two Desert Eagles .50

P.S. To kill someone with a firearm is a lot easier than with a blade...Point and shoot.
Вот ЗАРЭЗАТ - эта нада настаящим мущинай быть, ара, да? Кынжал в жопа хочещь?
Joined: 7/1/2001
Posts: 304
Posted on Monday, October 1, 2001 8:20:00 PM
 
MadOne, ya s toboy ne soglashus'.. esli protiv tebya ispol'zuyut orujie ti vpolne mojesh' ego tak je ispol'zovat' i ne dumat' skol'ko tebe mogut dat' posle, tak kak etogo "posle" mojet ne bit' voobsche v vidu tvoey skoropostijnoy konchini.. soglashus' chastichno s pitachkom - esli nosit' orujie ono v bol'shinstve sluchaev mojet obernut'sa protiv vas je samih esli vi ne umeete s nim obraschatsa.. odnako esli vi svobodno vladeete im i ne boites' primenyat', to primenyate pri neobhodimosti.. voobsche konechno je nujno vsyacheski izbegat' silovih konfliktov vplot' do "sdelat' nogi".. odnako bivayut situacii kogda eto ne variant.. esli ya viju chto draki ne isbejat', to predpochtu nanesti udar pervim.. bit' jestoko i navernyaka.. takie situacii voznikali ochen' redko v moey jizni, no bilo delo.. i ya rad chto ne somnevalsa v etih sluchayah.. kstati noji v drakah dostayut v bol'shinstve sluchaev dlya pozyorstva i zapugivaniya.. kak pravilo takaya persona esli uvidit chto drugaya storona toje dostala noj i ne boitsa ego primenit' sto raz podumaet i skoree vsego retiruetsa..
voobsche ideya svobodnogo nosheniya orujiya sostoit v tom chto prestupnik budet znat' chto pitayas' ograbit' kogo to v tyomnom pereulke ugrojaya pushkoy on mojet poluchit' pulyu v lob ot togo kogo on pitaetsa ograbit'..
kstati ob orujii na samolyotah.. predstavte sebya na meste terrorista zahvativshego samolet ugrojaya pistoletom bezorujnim passajiram.. a teper' predstavte chto passajiri ne bezorujni..
ya sovsem ne prizivayu k orujiyu na samoletah ili na ulicah.. kak raz taki ya protiv etogo.. no doljen skazat' chto svobodnoe noshenie orujiya imeet smisl v obschetsve gde gosudarstvennie strukturi ne sposobni zaschitit' svoih grajdan.. v etom sluchae oni imeet pravo samolichno obespechivat' svoyu bezopasnost'..
Joined: 2/26/2001
Posts: 3115
Posted on Monday, October 1, 2001 11:40:00 PM
 
I would buy a gun to shoot targets, I love that, but not a hand gun - a rifle or something.

Madone is right, its very hard to kill. One might think its not, but it EXTREMLY HARD. I once had a chance of cutting a chicken neck, and couldn't. Just the thought of the chicken which breaths at your hands at one moment, and the next moment you know you have taken a life. I had let the chicken go.
Some might say i am a coward, but I am happy i didn't kill it.

I don't know what would I do if someone pointed a gun at me, I think I would made in my pants first of all.

Murzilka, for 1st degree murder you will get a life, not 6-8 years. 6-8 years(if u get paroled) you will get for killing someone accidently.
there is a difference how you kill, with a knife or a gun.
First of all, its ilegal to kill, unless for self defence, and when you defend yourself you must use "reasonable force"
A gun and a knife are in very different categories of that "reasonalbe force"


Peace
Evric
Joined: 8/30/2001
Posts: 284
Posted on Tuesday, October 2, 2001 12:13:00 AM
 
CEO Evric,
so, for 1st degree with the gun you get life
but with the knife you get less?
Or it only makes a difference if its not a
1st degree?
Joined: 7/1/2001
Posts: 304
Posted on Tuesday, October 2, 2001 12:19:00 AM
 
kak trogatel'no pro kuricu.. pryamo iz repertuara "ptichku jalko".. pomnitsa u menya toje bila vozmojnost' otrezat' golovu kurice.. ne mogu skazat' chto mnogo priyatnih emociy ya ispital, noj okazalsa tupim, no vsyo je otrezal..
a escho mi preparirovali lyagushek na uroke biologii v shkole.. shkola moya bila s himiko-biologicheskim uklonom.. i ko vsemu bil podhod sur'yozniy..
a kogda sovsem karapuzom bil mi lovili bol'shih murav'yov shtuk 6 i sajali ih na derevo (vishnya, kak seychas pomnyu) kotoroe prinadlejalo malen'kim murav'yam, oni po nemu begali tuda syuda.. tak vot bol'shie dralis' otchayanno, no malen'kih bilo bol'she i oni ih razrivali na chasti.. zrelische bilo upast' ne vstat'..
chto to menya na vospominaniya potyanulo.. :)
Joined: 5/3/2001
Posts: 808
Posted on Tuesday, October 2, 2001 12:31:00 AM
 
Ia bi kypil gipperboloid inzenera Garina
Sachem?
A X ego snaet....
Joined: 6/17/2001
Posts: 864
Posted on Tuesday, October 2, 2001 9:38:00 AM
 
Да. Какой нибудь револьвер. И пули бы понадсекал крест на крест...
В принципе дома у меня было два ТТ.
Joined: 6/19/2001
Posts: 5468
Posted on Tuesday, October 2, 2001 7:28:00 PM
 
CEO, you are the sweetest thing....kuritsu ne mog zarezat....this is the sweetest thing in this whole forum....after discussion who will kill whom with what, you mentioned your chicken...umileniye:)))
My grandfather used to tell me that when you cut a head of the chicken with a knife, it continues running healess....like an instinct or something....headless chick with bloody neck....
Also my mom used to tell me that her grandfolks had a special farm for special retarded chicks that could not be used in mainstream commerce....basically they were works of art...3 headed, 1 legged, shared-bodied, one-winged etc:)) my mom used to play with them and she said she did not feel they were "different"....
Anyhow one day her grandpa accidently killed a chick with slaming a door...so chicks could be killed in different ways:)
CEO you are the best:))))))
Joined: 10/2/2001
Posts: 74
Posted on Tuesday, October 2, 2001 8:39:00 PM
 
Я полагаю, ни для не секрет, что девочка, которая любит ночные клубы, выпить и мальчиков, имеет больше шансов подвергнуться насилию, чем ее одноклассница, которая сидит дома и учит уроки. Мужику, которому приспичит выйти ночью за сигаретами, скорее набьют лицо, чем его соседу, который, допустим, успел запастись ими днём. Бизнесмен, который полез в нечистый бизнес (а у нас практически весь бизнес так или иначе криминален), скорее попадет под разборку, чем токарь дядя Вася с соседнего завода по производству электромолотилок.
Так же и человек с оружием сам помещает себя в определенную группу риска, разве нет? Теряется часть осторожности, кажется, что уж теперь-то тебе точно ничего не грозит... Хотя у каждой медали, как обычно, две стороны - бывают ситуации и профессии, в которых без огнестрельного оружия не обойтись. Правда, речь вроде не о них?
Что же касается моральных и этических соображений по поводу убийства, можно, конечно, упирать на то, что, убивая других, вы убиваете и себя, теряя человечность каплю за каплей. Но! Не знаю, может ли существо, собирающееся отнять твою жизнь, считаться таким же человеком? По-моему, нет. По-моему, это бешеные звери, подлежащие отстрелу. И если я не до конца осознаю, как поступлю, если опасность будет грозить мне, то отлично знаю, что ради защиты дорогого мне человека не остановлюсь ни перед чем. Никто не станет рассуждать, а этично ли применить оружие, если у него на глазах будут насиловать или убивать мать или сестру,а, ребятки?
Joined: 9/23/2001
Posts: 216
Posted on Wednesday, October 3, 2001 10:46:00 AM
 
Buy a gun? Sure why not, but not just any gun. I'd buy an H&K Mk23 (Socom), or an FN Five-seveN

Better yet pack one o'dose Berrett M82A1's or an H&K PSG1 in the trunck of your car.
The best solution though is mounting a Browning M2 or one of General Dynamics' gatling guns on the roof of your car and cutting an access hatch. There all better, now even a pissed off islamic militant will not come within 300 meter off your car. As a matter of fact you could declare war on say Scarborough and do a little ethnic clensing. Getting away with druck driving will never be easier, coz no cop in the right mind would approach a car with a gatling gun and an access hatch on the roof withough calling national guard 1st. If they do manage to arrest you bon't blame me if they lock you up somewhere beep inside 1001 Queen St. in a softroom for the rest of your life.

Now that we have this safety thing taken care off, onto other things.
Joined: 2/26/2001
Posts: 3115
Posted on Wednesday, October 3, 2001 11:34:00 AM
 
Thank you MA/\bIIII. Very nice to hear it from you.

Murzilka, 1st degree murder is when you plan to kill someone, kill a cop on duty, kill a witness to a crime. It makes little difference how you did it. By law you will get life in prison.
The weapon of murder makes difference when you pleas self defence. You always have to use reasonable force and knife and a gun are in very different categories.
For example, you are attacked by someone with a stick, and shoot him in the head. The amount of force used is exsesive, you could have shot him in the leg or something, to prevent harm to yourself but not kill him.

This is 3 years old info, could have been long changed.

Peace
Evric
Joined: 9/23/2001
Posts: 216
Posted on Wednesday, October 3, 2001 3:53:00 PM
 
Well CEO I think you are a bit off there. Killing a cop or a witness doesn't make it 1st degree murder. Your logic is sound, but your examples are not specific enough. Like you said "1st degree murder is when you plan to kill someone". If I remember correctly a prosecutor has to prove intent, motive and the action in order to convict anyone of 1st degree murder. While killing an officer of law is a different charge all together, killing a witness to a crime doesn't make it 1st degree murder without intent, motive and the action.

In self-defense reasonable force is subjective to the weapons used in the attack and in the defense. No one will argue that it is excessive to kill an attacker who has nothing but a stick, no matter how aggressive the attacker is, simply because such attacker doesn't pose much of a treat to a person with a gun. On the other hand if an attacker armed with a gun was aggressive to the point where one's life is in clear and present danger, then I’d make sure the attacker doesn't get up. Let me clear that up a bit. I don't think it is reasonable force to kill a mugger over a valet or purse, the attacker is not after your life here so the situation doesn't constitute clear and present danger for your life. The situation above is very easy to misjudge since a gun is a deadly weapon and most people would perceive a gun as an immediate threat to their lives reacting out of instinct to defend themselves with deadly, excessive force. Now take away the victim's means of defending themselves and now in exact same situation with exact same instinct of self-preservation the reaction is much different and the victim gives up some valuables and some dignity but at least does not taking a life. Now all you martial arts people out there tell me is it your fighting skill or is it your self-control discipline that going to be useful here, if it's the former the you really shouldn't have a gun, if it's the latter then you don't need one.

I my mind the only situation that calls for an unconditional use of a gun is when we have crazy psychotics running around Toronto killing people, then you better shoot that idiot to protect yourself and everyone else. Hopefully we live in a society that is more civilized then I gave it credit for.

In response to the thread that started this all "Would I ever buy a gun if I could?” No I would not I'd rather take some martial arts classes.
Joined: 10/3/2001
Posts: 172
Posted on Wednesday, October 3, 2001 3:53:00 PM
 
Мне кажется, что иметь личное оружие для самообороны совсем недурно даже в таком городе как Торонто
Joined: 10/3/2001
Posts: 1
Posted on Wednesday, October 3, 2001 7:01:00 PM
 
I'ma pop a cap in y0 ass, f00 !
Joined: 2/26/2001
Posts: 3115
Posted on Thursday, October 4, 2001 12:16:00 AM
 
MAXIMAL :))
Rad tebia zdes videt, vidno ti hot nemnogo v zakone smislesh.

Now lets go point by point
The info I gace was 3 years old, you must know how much it could have been changed.

Killing a cop on duty IS 1st degree murder, so is killing a witness to a crime, but you must know he is a witness and u kill to keep him quiet.
DA does need intent, motiv and means to comit ANY crime, not only murder. You can't have any prosecution without any of the 3.

Officer of the law is a "movie word", its peace officer, and it could be many people, even pilots and firemen are peace officers.

In your second paragraph you were right about the reasonable and exsesive force. But yet again, everything in the law is subjective and given to interpretation of lawyers and judges.

Mojet ti so mnoi ne vezde soglasishsia, no vse ravno priatno pogovorit.
Btw, do you have any relationship to Michael Labovski?

Peace
Evric
Joined: 9/21/2001
Posts: 2605
Posted on Thursday, October 4, 2001 2:22:00 AM
 
CEO. Его отец ! =))
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